Interviews

We’ve heard from the RYZE team that you’re one of their most important customers. You’ve given them an incredible testimonial, and you’ve been working together for quite a few years. They regard you as one of the thought leaders in HR, especially within your sector. From what we gather, the region you’re in charge of represents roughly 12–13% of global sales. You’ve been working with RYZE for quite a few positions, most recently hiring the Japan head of public sector sales.

Francis :
That’s basically correct. I’ve always used RYZE for strategic (top-level or mid-level) leadership roles. As mentioned in my testimonial, I’ve been using them since my last two companies, so it’s not a day-one thing. This goes back to 2016. They’ve been doing really well, even in my last two companies. It’s really based on their track record of success and the trust they’ve built over the years. If I remember correctly, someone from the market referred them to me. I called them, met with them, and gave it a shot, and one thing led to another.

You’re very well-established and have a network of trusted contacts. You know all the major players in the recruiting space. But hypothetically, if you were to look for a recruiting company, how would you go about that?

Francis :
Japan is a very unique market, so I don’t look for things online. It has to come from a referral and track record. Many agencies in Japan are reaching out to me, but I ignore them 99% of the time. There are too many to begin with. Everybody claims to be an expert and charges an arm and a leg. The reality is there’s a lot of movement in the industry—people come and go. I prefer working with a more stable team. That’s one of the primary reasons with Bill and David—I’ve worked with them long enough to know they are a stable team.

You’re based in Singapore now, but back in 2016, were you still in Singapore with a regional role?

Francis :
Yes, I’ve always been in a regional role from 2016 until now.

So when you were first in the discovery phase, there weren’t any particular KPIs or factors when choosing a recruiter. It was mainly through relationships and, as you say, some type of social proof about their track record and capabilities?

Francis :
The relationship, or referral, is a starting point. Along the way, it’s about engagement, customer experience, and trust built over time through their delivery, timely updates, and the quality of candidates brought forward.

Over time, they prove their capability and expertise through their depth of market knowledge. More importantly, it’s their ability to reach candidates that many others can’t or that we ourselves can’t. That’s how trust and confidence are built. Today, we have such a transparent relationship that we call a spade a spade—if they can’t do something, they tell me, and vice versa. There’s a very important fundamental keyword here: respect. Mutual respect on both sides has helped determine and bring us to where we are in the partnership today.

Is it accurate to say that, while you’re posting job ads, the people you’re looking for are probably not actively job hunting? They’re in demand and probably doing well where they are, so do you need that assistance to get their interest?

Francis :
Yes, that’s accurate. Most Japanese would not think about leaving their company or even attempt to apply for a job unless there’s a reason to. Hence, advertisements don’t really get that kind of traction.

Plus, LinkedIn doesn’t work in Japan, and the number of users is small. So even if we have ads, they’re not going to reach the right pool of talents in the market. Secondly, you need ads localized, translated to Japanese, and placed in the right medium to get the proper attention.

More often than not, strong and suitable candidates are not available. They’re only waiting for someone to tap them on the shoulder and say, “Hey, there’s a role” before they’re open to talking. Because of all that, it’s been proven over time that advertisements have a shelf life and only work for certain roles, probably the more junior ones.

That makes sense. In terms of the decision-making process, when you decide whether or not to hire a candidate, is the decision made on your side, in the regional headquarters, or is it more of a joint decision between team and Japan?

Francis :
Typically, hiring decisions are made by the hiring managers themselves. We facilitate the process by playing the gatekeeper, helping to be the first line of defense to weed out all the non-qualified candidates. From there, the hiring manager and the hiring team are responsible for assessing and picking the best candidates, in their opinion.

How do you decide which hiring outsourcing company to use??

Francis :
Much of it concerns the turnaround time, the quality of candidates, and the response. Suppose you ask me how I measure it. In that case, there’s no magic formula because it’s really dependent on the team working on the role. Do they understand what we’re looking for, and how familiar are they with the market? My experience so far with Ryze is that they get it. You cut straight to the chase, tell them what you need, the do’s and don’ts, and the key things to look for. They come back very accurately.

Another key thing I respect is that the team at Ryze clearly understands that we don’t waste time in my world. I’m too busy dealing with so many things to need them to flood me with tons of CVs.

The agreement was clear from day one: if nothing is better or good, don’t waste my time by sending me candidates to show you’re doing work. Sometimes, we could go dry for two or three weeks without CVs, and I’m perfectly fine with that. But when they come back with a good CV, it’s typically pretty spot on.

So far, the criteria and assessments have always been based on their success track record and turnaround. It’s hard to compare the two agencies because much of the work done at the agency level is very dependent on the consultants. You can try to measure it, but the agency world is different.

It’s different from the corporate world, where we have KPI metrics about filling out how many roles per month and so forth. When I’m using an agency, if I start using those metrics, I don’t think we’re getting the full value of the service we’re paying for because we’re looking for quality hires, not quantity hires.

If you’re looking at metrics, I don’t know, maybe other companies have a way of measuring it, but in our world, the key thing is really the quality of candidates, how fast they can turn around, and the number of placements they’ve done with us over the years.And so far, for Ryze, with every tough search we’ve given them, they’ve never failed us. In fact, they’ve filled most of them.They have been in the market for more than 20 years, and they know the Japanese market so well—to the point of knowing who’s who. What could be improved? I can’t think of anything at this point.

As you correctly put it, I always consider them as one of my top two agencies in Japan. Even when I compare them against my other agency, with which I also have a strong relationship, the competition is neck and neck. There isn’t a clear line of who’s the ultimate winner—they’re both equally good, and each has its own strengths and specialty areas.

Are there any of their contemporaries in the industry that publish, for example, some type of salary report so you can see current salaries in Japan? Is there any type of content or information that you find interesting out there?

Francis :
I’ve always been trying to find such information, but unfortunately, I don’t think there’s anything reliable available in terms of free resources findable via Google.

More often than not, these resources come from people with vested interests in why they publish such reports, and the reports often contain more inaccuracies than good data. I’m not a fan of looking at salary data from the web and making assumptions based on that.

Regarding helpful website information, what we want are market data trends, market insights, and government news—things RYZE knows about the Japanese market and macroeconomics that we, as external clients, may not know or have access to. That information would be far more valuable rather than the standard stuff of trying to count metrics or the number of war stories you have.

Do any of RYZE’s competitors have a particularly well-put-together online presence? Maybe you saw it and thought, “Wow, these guys are really doing things well,” or it gave you a great first impression.

Francis :
No, haven’t seen any or tried any at this point. There are many claims in the market about what they could do for their clients. But does it really turn out to be what is promised? That’s another thing. Sadly, more often than not, many such companies sell you the sizzle. But once you come on board, it’s like, “Oh, it wasn’t as per what was deemed or perceived or promised.

Suppose you recommend RYZE Consulting to someone who needs to hire good personnel in Japan. How would you recommend RYZE Consulting to a friend or colleague?？

Francis :
If I were to recommend RYZE, the easiest is to say that I’ve used them. They’ve proven results, and I’m a walking testimonial to talk about how good they are and what they have done. Of course, it’s all going to be based on individual experiences as well, so it’s best that they try it out and have a go at it.

The industry is small, and we work together. Industry leaders often talk to one another, so we take each other’s recommendations quite seriously. And let’s say nobody will refer them if they’re not good.

Okay, thank you, Francis. Have a great rest of your day, and all the best.

Francis:
Thank you so much. Okay, bye.